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File: fascism.jpg - (62.12 KB, 499x459) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
63612 No.3506736

Fascism 101: Spell it Facsim. Ban comments.

https://kiwifarms.net/threads/dragoneer-preyfar-firepyro-sean-piche-spottybitch-princess-piche.34077/

http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/8733053

As the international community comes together in solidarity against hate, Fur Affinity has also evolved to strengthen and protect our own. As part of our efforts to combat hate, we announced a rule on September 4, 2017 that outright prohibits our users from identifying with or promoting hate groups on Fur Affinity:

(Current Rule) Code of Conduct, Section 2.7 - Do not identify with or promote hate groups and their ideologies.
A hate group is one that advocates and practices hatred, hostility, or violence towards members of a designated sector of society (e.g. Nazism, KKK, ISIS). Symbols specifically associated with these groups will not be permitted in user avatars, non-fictional content, or content intended solely to disrupt the community. Users who identify with or promote hate groups and their ideologies may be permanently banned from Fur Affinity without warning.

Since then, we have removed users from our website who openly identified with these ideologies or spread hate on Fur Affinity and we feel that our community has been bettered by our efforts thanks to your help. Continuing with this momentum, we have updated the rule to be more clear and include the alt-right and alt-furry groups:

(Updated Rule) Code of Conduct, Section 2.7 - Do not identify with or promote real hate or terrorist organizations and their ideologies.
A hate group is one that advocates and practices hatred, hostility, or violence towards members of a designated sector of society (e.g. Nazism, KKK, ISIS, Alt-Right). Symbols of hate associated with these groups (e.g. Swastika, Confederate Flag, etc.) will not be permitted in user avatars, real-life photographs (unless for historical education), and content intended solely to disrupt the community. Users who identify with or promote real hate or terrorist organizations and their ideologies may be permanently banned from Fur Affinity without warning.

Why did you add Alt-Right to your examples of hate groups?

We didn’t initially recognize the Alt-Right as a hate group since the movement was relatively new and made up of many different voices. As time has passed, it has been officially classified as a hate group by many reputable organizations who closely monitor hate and terrorist group activities. We have also identified many accounts and monitored numerous, coordinated activities rooted in spreading hate and furthering instability within the community through the use of our website - these accounts have now been closed. It has been determined that the Alt-Right majorly consists of white supremacists, neo-fascists, and other fringe hate groups. If you identify as or promote Alt-Right ideologies (e.g. Alt-Furry and Furry Raiders) on Fur Affinity, you may be permanently banned.

What about Antifa, "Alt-Left" and the Alt-Light (New Right)?

At this time, we could not find enough evidence to consider Antifa a hate group and what was provided appeared to be of false-equivalence. There has been voiced concern about their operations on Fur Affinity and we have and will continue to monitor and take action against any user who promotes or encourages illegal activites and violence on our website as per our rules. Concerning the Alt-Left, there is no evidence one exists, and the Alt-Light or New Right has specifically distanced themselves from the Alt-Right and openly rejected hate and identity politics.

Will you take action against users for what they do outside of Fur Affinity?

In most circumstances, no. We do not take action against users for off-site content unless a substantial and direct correlation can be made to an incident that is imminent or occurring on Fur Affinity or involves content that the user themselves have linked to from our website. Our main focus is being an art community. If you have an issue with what someone is saying or doing on another website (e.g. Twitter, Facebook, DeviantArt), please report it to that website’s help desk for assistance.

Why use the term “real hate-based or terrorist organizations?”

It is important to differentiate between real organizations and fictional ones such as Hydra (Marvel), COBRA (G.I. Joe), The Foot Clan (TMNT), or the Death Eaters (Harry Potter).

What about fictional content that I find offensive?

Fur Affinity provides a platform for our users to exchange ideas and works of art that include variety of different themes. We understand that some users may create content that is political, religious, or use themes that may be perceived as offensive. However, artistic expression that may be offensive to some users does not necessarily mean the content violates our rules. Indiana Jones would not be who he is without his greatest enemies. Maus would not be the tragic story it is without being able to show the horror.

Fictional expression should be differentiated from the committing of real life acts. If you believe that the content posted is not intended to be fictional, grossly promotes hate and violence against a group of people, or otherwise violates any of our other rules and policies, we encourage you to report it so that our staff may review it.

We are an art site and a source of joy for many; we are committed to preserving this open, supportive community and may suspend and/or ban users who actively attempt to make Fur Affinity into a political or religious battleground. This is a particularly upsetting form of trolling and will be dealt with severely.

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No.3506739
File: fascist preyfar.jpg - (152.96 KB, 720x871) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
156636

Meanwhile, just watch his behavior and ask why he wouldn't consider antifa, a group that's conducted nothing but property damage, damage to persons, and obstructing traffic, not violent.

But he's taking actions on people who are not documented to show such behavior.

No.3506740

Zelox, is that you?

No.3506741
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343196

Everyone with an opinion just got banned from FA.

Check it.

No.3506746
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121353

>>3506741
Opinions are just another word for white supremacist ideologies.

No.3506748
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53684

>>3506746

No.3506750

good

No.3506751

Identity politics are bad if certain people try to play them. Hate is okay if certain people are doing it. FA is run by the morally and intellectually bankrupt.

No.3506752

>>3506751

>FA is run by the morally and intellectually bankrupt.

That may be so, but they're clearly making progress.

No.3506753

>>3506752
You have a weird definition of progress if you think some hate groups are okay because propaganda groups give them a pass using lousy excuses.

No.3506754
File: a1a.png - (97.51 KB, 680x680) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
99848

>>3506736

>>prohibits our users from identifying with or promoting hate groups
>>Do not identify with or promote hate groups and their ideologies
>>We stand against hate.

We hate those that we disagree with. Any hate must be approved by the authorities.

>>The furry community is about expressing identity
>>our community
>>we have removed users

We embrace diversity and self-expression, unless we disagree with you.

>>Symbols of hate associated with these groups Nazism, KKK, ISIS, Alt-Right

However communist, socialist, bolshevik, anarchist and leftist symbols are just fine.

>>artistic expression that may be offensive to some users does not necessarily mean the content violates our rules

Real life content is offensive. The exact same content modeled as fictitious is just fine.

Hail Hydra!!!!

No.3506755
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13512

>>3506748

>Implying that wanting the murder of certain groups of living persons is somehow "having an opinion".
No.3506768
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178736
> kiwifarms
No.3506779

>>3506755
Don't bother trying to reason with these animals. Learn to take a special delight in watching them scream and cry about how "oppressed" they are. Raise a glass in good cheer when they get banned somewhere, have their events shut down or just generally get attacked.

Because they can, have and will do worse to you if you give them even a fraction of an inch.

No.3506789

>>3506755
But it's okay if it's capitalists you want to murder.

No.3506811

>>3506789
it's not murder when it's self defence :^)

No.3506832
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89032
No.3506833
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610382
No.3506835
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554067

Absolutely beautiful.
Kinda feel sorry for all the people who express their opinions on the web.

No.3506845

"However communist, socialist, bolshevik, anarchist and leftist symbols are just fine."
Yes, by, um, not murdering six million jews?
Wanting to build a world with equality away from Capitalism?
Yeah?
Human rights?
If you're against socialism you're a piece of shit and get the guillotine.

No.3506849

>>3506845

Yes, by, um, not murdering six million jews?
Wasn't 6 million.

But glad to see you're propping that up. Anything to steer attention away from the 23 million+ under Stalin's belt alone. And please, tell me just how much Communist countries care deeply for human rights.

Clear the fuck off.

No.3506854

>>3506849
Kulaks deserved worse. KYS.

No.3506855

>>3506845

>>Yes, by, um, not murdering six million jews?

Because jews are more important than other lives?

WEW!

No.3506856
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587291
No.3506858
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102422

>>3506845

Human rights

Guillotine

No.3506860

>>3506849

>holocaust denial

I shouldn't be surprised when every single rightwinger turns out to be a literal nazi, but somehow I still am. The sjws were right all along.

No.3506863
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124431

>>3506739

No.3506869
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22704

>>3506860 You're generalizing... which is what Racist and fascist do. They see one person doing a thing they don't like on a political or racial group they don't like act as if everyone on that side is guilty of the same thing.

I'm a right winger & I'm not denying the Holocaust. I'm pointing out the obvious flaws in preaching human rights while at the same time promoting "the guillotine" for people who "disagree" with socialism.

See if anything you're actually providing holocaust deniers a platform by acting like irrational lunatics... regular people are taking a step back and going hmm... if these people are going this far to shut them down... maybe they're on to something & I should actually give them a chance instead of writing them off irrelevant nutcase storm fags like I used to.

Antifa are ... kind'a like fire men... who try to put fires out with gasoline & alcohol and when people go ... WOW... there sure seems like there's been a lot more FIRE around since these "Antifire" people showed up & these same people whoa are noticing this, get called out as fire lovers or arson sympathizers by Antifire... for noticing the obvious increase in fire.

No.3506877

You dumbfucks think antifa is a violent organization when it is actually an organization designed to receive violence. That's how protest politics works. Two groups egg eachother on until the other commits an atrocity and the first can claim victimhood. Cosidering it was one of you dumb retards that took the bait and ran someone over I'd say they're doing a good job. The idea that they're so awful because 'violent extremists who act like nazis' is a fucking joke considering who's whining about it. Once again, who goes out there carrying guns and promoting death to non-whites? It's a huge snare and you're all caught in it. Antifa's sole sin is looking too much like terrorists. The fact of the matter is that at the end of the day when people have a choice they don't want to live under your horseshit conservative 'ideals' because all of it is a bunch of propaganda horseshit with huge machines behind it spreading constant lies and disinformation. If your point of view is so right and true why does it take all of that horseshit and historical failed attempts at fascism to keep it going? Why do you have to utterly brainwash your followers with blatant lies and crass tribalism? Do you see the left doing this in any way measurable to the right?

No.3506882

>>3506877 Yeah... attacking like terrorists tends to you labeled as terrorists.

Funny how that works.

If the left's ideas are so great why do they have to go apeshit insane to silence their opposition?

If the left ideas are so great why more people walking away from the left and distancing themselves from it?

No.3506891
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37747

>>3506882
lol you assholes never change

No.3506892

Antifa = opposition to fascism.

Fascism = failure to support the socialist revolution and the dictatorship of the proletariat.

No.3506893

>>3506877
I'm still waiting for the trial to end on that one. I saw a bunch of violent rioters strike his car before he hit that crowd. It could very well just be a case of him accelerating out of panic.

If they were there to provoke violence from the alt right, then why would they waste their time disrupting talks by moderates like Sargon.

I'd say they're nothing more than a group of retarded communists, but that would be redundant.

No.3506894

>>3506892
nuh uh antifa are the real terrorists because they silence perfectly fine, normal ideas such as genocide and race superiority

No.3506895

>>3506893

>accelerating out of panic.

hahaha go fuck yourself

No.3506896

>>3506895
Wow, you sure told me. Okay I'm convinced. Down with the bourgeoisie, comrade.

No.3506898
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44580

Reminder that socialism is a foreign political ideology.

Believe in socialism? Congratulations, you're a Russian agent, possibly a Putin cockholster.

No.3506901

>>3506898

>rightwinger
>posting tankie memes

The right can't meme.

No.3506905
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45039

>>3506858

Are fascists even considered humans?
Fascism has extremes, but see it more like a virus. Even in a small dose, you're still a fascist.
You think capitalism is fair? Billionaires exploiting humans, keeping everyone in poverty while others are starving, this is fascism.
Being white and refusing to acknowledge other races have suffered to ensure your position in the society, and still do? You're a fascist.
Decided to join the police, decided to buy a gun because you're scared a black guy would rob you, and you are ready to kill a man who will take your commodities or your possessions?
Even in a small dose you're a lost cause. If you voted for the fucker we have for president, you are guilty of making people suffering today, you are a criminal. You are a criminal. You are a fascist, a criminal.
A criminal, for putting a criminal in power, with more criminals.
And the only way to kill criminals like you, not human beings, is to fight you by all means.
I fight you on social networks. I fight you, on our communities. Ifight you in video games, in chat rooms, in comments, and when the time will come, I will kill you. One by one.
We are at war. You are the enemy.
No.3506906

>>3506894
Or not supporting Hillary Clinton. Or being bald for whatever reason.

No.3506918
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27839

>>3506906
By not supporting Hilary, you supported Trump's victory.
By not giving all the chances to Hillary believing Bernie would be a game changer you endangered her chance to win and prevent all of this shit. You are not directly responsible but if you did VOTE for her, HE would not be elected. That's the truth, that's fucking Math. You are fucking useless and now we are a majority against a minority ruling us.
No matter how you call yourself you're all the same to me.

No.3506923
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20471

>>3506905 So basically... You're... insane...
and ... threatening to kill me & anyone who isn't
100% on board with your insanity.

No.3506925

>>3506918
I hope this is a joke post, because you live in a sad, sad world if not.

No.3506926
File: funny-how-all-the-people-wanting-socialism-dontreally-contributemuch-to-21507616.png - (151.67 KB, 500x567) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
155309

>>3506858

>expecting consistency from socialists
No.3506927
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12929

>>3506918
This. The only good thing socialists have ever done in this country is helping to elect Donald Trump and give control of every level of government to the GOP.

No.3506930

>>3506925
I'm fucking not kidding, yes I live in a sad world which the only thing that recently made me happy is the website I frequent the most just took action against the nazi filth.

You swill taste how I'm not fucking kidding if I fucking see your face IRL and start punching you and massacring your skull with a baseball bat. You will taste how everybody is pissed at your fucki9ng ideals, and how all the hate you got will come back on your face.

Fuck you.

>>3506927
You are fucking retarded. We are a majority who have voted for Hillary, because America is a fascist state.

No.3506932

>>3506930

>My furry fetish fandom (and my only friends) recently came out against NAZIS! YES! TAKE THAT YOU SOCIALISTS! But I'm a socialists but I hate those other socialists, but whatever, because this is literally the height of my life on earth.
No.3506935

>>3506896
no one said anything about that, you were distinctly told to go fuck yourself, you bootlicking bitch

No.3506936

There are literally zero pro-Hillary comrades. This is a rightwinger doing a particularly transparent imitation of what he images leftists are like.

Because going to a DSA meeting or similar leftist gathering to encounter actual leftists would require him to leave his room, and we can't have that.

No.3506939
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135398

>>3506936

>Because going to a DSA meeting or similar leftist gathering to encounter actual leftists would require him to leave his room, and we can't have that.

I don't attend a DSA meeting because I don't think I'd be able to get past all the flab and stench. I could only imagine it's worse than a furry convention. I doubt you could find a collection of more pathetic and useless human beings than a room full of socialists.

No.3506943

>>3506939
Protip: Nobody actually wants chantard failures to show up anywhere. We prefer that you remain hidden in your room.

No.3506944

>>3506930
You need to get laid kid. That or take your meds and go play Xbox while you quit being so retarded.

No.3506948
File: 680aaa593a9f190b8253dd9e06d42f596c4d1b92fbe22595d57f0b9f31349df0.gif - (703.61 KB, 382x450) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
720499

>>3506943

>whine about "chantards"
>on a chan
No.3506975
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57398

>>3506927

>The only good thing socialists have ever done in this country is helping to elect Donald Trump

And God bless them, their cult of personality and that cranky old man's ego that made Sanders just unable to accept defeat. Without them gifting us Trump, oil prices wouldn't be pushing past $80 a barrel, I wouldn't have gotten a $40,000 bonus for last year, I wouldn't be saving over $600 per month in taxes and my retirement account wouldn't be as far as it is.

No.3506978

>>3506948

>>on a chan
>not actually on a *chan
No.3506989

antifa broke a window and beat some dudes up, also they threatened to punch me. literally genocidal hate group! WY U NO BAN FA!?!111

No.3506999

>>3506989

Antifa cracked some guy in a trump hat over the head with a bikelock and has been known to firebomb apartments with molotovs.

The thing about antifa is that they are cowards and physically ineffectual. They wish they could be as hard as some far right groups and definitely aim to be, but they're just really bad at it. They don't know how to punch or shoot or plan beyond showing up someplace and marching.

When confronted by actual opposition they tend to get their asses beat or even killed because they're soft and don't really seem to get into shape. Then they just hide behind the 'fascist' police.

Several cases where they've just been kicked and died after hitting the pavement. Then you have the guy who punched Richard Spencer, who, when running up with full momentum and the complete element of surprise, couldn't even manage to do more than bruise the ear of his target. Meanwhile neo-nazis cold cock these kids and they get concussions. Or they get their own knives taken from them and turned on them. It's super pathetic.

So it's not really a matter of Antifa not being violent extremists. It's just that they're really really bad at it.

No.3507006
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109608

>>3506779

No.3507007

>>3506789

See >>3506811

"Capitalists" in general are no issue, the issue are oligarchs and big corp and executives. They are always planning how to fuck the ones in the bottom and their clients so they can get richer.
Memos like the famous Wells Fargo, where they clearly define how CURING PEOPLE IS NOT FEASIBLE NOR CONVENIENT FOR THE BANK AND ITS FINANCIAL INTERESTS. THEREFORE NEW METHODS OF PHARMA ARE ENCOURAGED.

No.3507008

>>3506882

>terrorists..
>almost every single terrorism attack has been actually from right wing interests (from white supremacists in the majority to islamic terrorism in the other)
>almost all the violence has been staged heavily by police ordered by white radical men, cracking down on leftists wanting for freedom or better rights.

Funny how PR works right? Because the right surely loves to distort history.

But sure, keep pretending the left is the violent one.

No.3507009
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69995

>>3506975

>still thinks his retirement will hold when the economy tanks and the recession hits on.
>Still thinks that the oil prices has anything to do with Trump when in reality are dictated by Supply of the OPEC and third party groups like Venezuela, Russia, Iran and Mexico.
>Thinks that because he got a bonus, somehow the entire country is ok. Even when the majority hasn't received a single bonus, received tiny bonus, or got fired and never received their pay increase as promised.
No.3507013
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471063

>>3506999

>Antifa cracked some guy in a trump hat over the head with a bikelock

No, you have that wrong. The guy in the video was NOT wearing a Trump hat. He's wearing no hat. Maybe he's wearing a Trump t-shirt but I couldn't tell in the video. He was trying to diffuse the situation when a LEFTIST COLLEGE PROFESSOR attacked with a bikelock.

Socialists only have fear, violence, threats and terrorism to advance their agenda. It's why they'll always ultimately fail.

No.3507015
File: that_s_not_real_communism__by_kasaundra1-dal7zb2.jpg - (214.98 KB, 540x791) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
220141

>>3507009

You're right, oil prices have also been boosted by the choice of Venezuelans to elect a socialist government and continue to support it after it failed them. It's a combination of Trump and the failure of socialism abroad that has shored up my position at home.

>Thinks that because he got a bonus, somehow the entire country is ok. 

Who gives a fuck about the rest of the country? I got mine so fuck you. Could you not parlay your hatred of religion and your supposed love of science into a profitable career? If not then you can go fuck yourself.

Also Wal-Mart, At&T, Home Depot, and thousands of other companies announced pay increases and relatively huge bonuses because of the tax cuts. So maybe get a job if your so jelly of me and my two master's degrees in engineering that have lead to my success.

No.3507018

"They're a hate group that only hates other hate groups" No dipshit, they don't check party affiliation before they clobber someone.

They're gentrified Californian egomaniacs looking to blame people for problems their own fathers created.

No.3507019

Also, I'm glad his wife cucked him. He doesn't deserve to mate.

No.3507020
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77079

What god do I need to start worshipping to make Fagoneer die painfully and soon?

No.3507024
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91878

>>3507020

>What god do I need to start worshipping

Sorry but Fagoneer and his ex-wife Fiona are non-church attending atheists. You own them just like you have to deal with the "Amazing" atheist on your team, including his embarrassing and humiliating video with him covering his fat gut and hilariously tiny penis in hot oil.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/CringeAnarchy/comments/64k5ci/amazing_atheist_pours_hot_oil_over_his_tiny_dick/

No.3507026

>>3507018
It's pretty bad when actual nazis are far better behaved than you.

I consider myself to be fairly left/liberal on the political spectrum but goddamn if I don't almost every day consider just going full right just to piss off the people to whom nothing except their fucking exact and particular type of liberalism is good enough.

But I'm not going to, because I refuse to just change from one camp of insanity to another. I want some goddamn common sense, not shameless appeals to emotion.

No.3507032
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496274

>>3506869

Antifa are ... kind'a like fire men... who try to put fires out with gasoline & alcohol and when people go ... WOW... there sure seems like there's been a lot more FIRE around since these "Antifire" people showed up & these same people whoa are noticing this, get called out as fire lovers or arson sympathizers by Antifire... for noticing the obvious increase in fire.

Did Aufy just crack the West Coast wildfire crisis?

No.3507036

>>3507032
I think it's clear, Aufy/Polybuis is completely insane.

No.3507043
File: Clarke_God.jpg - (105.80 KB, 1366x768) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
108338
>>The only one there is. One God, many names, many manifestations. For enlightenment, try reading "THE NINE BILLION NAMES OF GOD', free to read online, even as an audiobook on youtube, and by Arthur C. Clarke, of all people.
No.3507126

>>3507036 He might be, but that's actually a fairly accurate analogy.

It's probably one of the more rational things he’s ever said.

No.3507127

>>3507026

>I consider myself to be fairly left/liberal on the political spectrum but goddamn if I don't almost every day consider just going full right just

might i suggest killing yourself posthaste you brain-damaged loner chud

No.3507155

>>3507127
Lead by example. Don't be a hypocrit.

No.3507789

https://youtu.be/W8qc2D7I7DE?t=28m10s

Wonder if little bits like this will get Uncle Kage banned from FA... That would be the shitstorm of the century for FA and I would pay good money to see that.

No.3507798

Wouldn't hating people in the alt-right be hating on a group?

Isn't that hatred?

Ban yourself for hating a minority, Dragoneer.

No.3507827

>>3507798

See, leftists and SJW believe that hate is a good thing and that if you demonize one group of people for that group of people being themselves, or else have a different ideology, then hate is absolutely warranted.

They believe they're on a noble crusade to purge the internet of _________. No, they're different from real fascists and Nazis because like they totes virtue signal so!

No.3507832

>>3507798

>Wouldn't hating people in the alt-right be hating on a group?

No, because being in the alt-right is a group you voluntarily choose to be a part of, unlike race, sex, nationality, etc.
inb4 spurious comparisons with homosexuality or transgenderism, rather than realising the obvious alternative group to use for comparison.

No.3507841

>>3507832
Except leaving said group carries the death penalty. Not really an option after all.

No.3507852

>>3507827

You still cant see the difference?

Antifa = 0 kills
ALT RIGHT and other right wing supremacists = above 100 in the past 6 years alone.

One is protecting their rights to live by eliminating those who hate.
The other is actively trying to put everyone else who they don't like DOWN, including removal of rights and even life.

Now you know the difference, which means you can now kill yourself.

No.3507862

>>3507015

>Who gives a fuck about the rest of the country? I got mine so fuck you. Could you not parlay your hatred of religion and your supposed love of science into a profitable career? If not then you can go fuck yourself.

AND STILL believes his fortune, money or even opportunities will somehow old and maintain themselves if the country goes under.

gods you're fucking stupid.

No.3507863

>>3507789

Surprised he hasn't, but that would attract the ire of the entire fandom.

But then, Dragoneer has a monstrous hatebonner for Kage. Hence why he had to create his own convention to fuel his own ego.

No.3507933
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195826
No.3507944
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15967

>>3507827

>Antifa is just another kind of fascist...

That's like saying cops are criminals for shooting someone robbing a bank. It's the ultimate speshal snowflake exceptionism that you think you are entitled to spew hate and vitriol at people and never be called on your bullshit. It's no wonder you need "Free speech zones" to be your safe spaces. You are all a bunch of fucking babies.

No.3507956
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257689

>>3507944
This is a better explanation of fascism.

https://youtu.be/ozamG2ntIgA

These are not "cops" fighting "Criminals".

Antifa is not just fighting "Nazis". Other than "Nazi's" we have

Women who don't want to get raped.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X12SfYpB_CQ

Homeless women who support the wrong candidate
https://youtu.be/htOj50B7dNk

Confused old lady trying to get through a block
https://youtu.be/sUsvF_eHBdA

They dress women the same as the men then fuck with people trying to get work. Women get hit back & everyone cries.
https://youtu.be/UtBBo2_FmC0

They're a huge fucking joke dude. It's just mob mentality madness. I don't know how you can stand by this kind'a thing.

No.3507969

>>3507944

>That's like saying cops are criminals for shooting someone robbing a bank.

The Antifa are literally vigilante mobs storming the bank and shooting some of the customers who they deem as "bank robbers", so they could then take the money instead.

Same logic as here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3RJUMm-hd0

No.3507978

>>3507969
Vigilante mobs are required when the authorities won't do anything about evil trash like you. Antifa are American heroes.

No.3507985

>>3507978

don't forget to salute after posting

No.3507986

>>3507933
Mohammad was a warlord terrorist pedophile, and it boggles my mind that anyone believes his cult was made for any purpose other than violent conquest.

No.3507988

>>3507978

>Vigilante mobs are required when the authorities won't do anything about evil trash

Vigilante mobs can work either way, and they fundamentally undermine the rule of law in a civil society. You're just applying double standards again: "law's the law when it's on our side, to be ignored at our whim".

If you deny the rule of law, you simply legitimize your enemy to do what they want, and civil society declines into civil war.

No.3507991

>>3507988
Fascists are antithetical to the rule of law. If they are not quashed by the authorities it falls to vigilates to beat them back and uphold order. Allowing them to grow unchecked leads to the collapse of order on a global scale.

You just don't want Antifa around because you're a fascist sympathizer you evil piece of shit.

No.3507995

>>3507991
You can't really be a fascist unless you are the authority. A fascist without authority is nothing. So rather than assaulting people you disagree with, I'd suggest you just stop voting for them and persuade others to stop voting for them through debate rather than screeching and vandalization.

And if a fascist does get elected, well then tough shit. That's democracy, commie, the people want it in that scenario.

Of course that's not the case at all. The Alt Right is far far smaller than Antifa. Antifa only think otherwise because anyone to the right of Marx is a Nazi to them.

No.3507997

>>3507995
Fascism is only able to thrive when decent people refuse to crush it, and it has a proven track record of subverting democracy like the parasitic ideology that it is. Hitler did not seize power through a coup, he was elected, and the people decided that "rule of law" was more important than crushing fascism, so he was able to thrive and subvert the system itself.

What does stop fascists is making them afraid to show their miserable faces in public. If Antifa outnumbers goddamn fash vermin, then that's fantastic news, and we should keep it up. Giving fash scum a black eye isn't even a small price to pay for freedom, it's an added bonus. All true patriots should delight in the suffering of fascists.

No.3507998

>>3507997
So you admit that Hitler could have been stopped by literally just not voting for him.

Assaulting people you disagree with isn't freedom. Should they be free to assault you? Is that what you want?

If a Nazi is speaking calmly about what he believes and you walk up and punch him, you look like the unreasonable person in that scenario, and you make him look reasonable by comparison.

Still though, a bunch of malnourished commies vs a handful of reasonably healthy alt-righters would make a good show. We should rent out an arena and just let them have it out until a winner is decided.

No.3508001

>>3507998
If a Nazi is speaking calmly you smash out all his teeth and then the speech stops. All other concerns are secondary compared to crushing the threat of fascism. The moment we remove our collective boots from their worthless throats is the moment they rise up and stab us in the back.

No.3508002
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71796

>>3507969

>The Antifa are literally vigilante mobs storming the bank...

Funny you immediately imagined them attacking a bank.
Is there any example of this behavior happening outside of your imagination? I have lots of examples of the right-wing attacking and killing people, shooting at cops and FBI.

Remember those wacky Bundy boys that armed anti-government protesters to take over a federal wildlife refuge in Oregon because the government arrested their dad for destroying evidence by burning down 130 acres of forest after he was accused of poaching?

When right-wing people form armed groups of thugs and shoot at cops it's barely even news because we all know those fuckers are crazy. One Antifa punches a nazi and it's news 24/7 for a week because people know shit is broken when the left is becoming violent.

Historically, the left doesn't fuck around. When we arm up and become violent, it isn't just for show and we don't puss out at the first sign of trouble. We fight and die if necessary until we get what we believe in.

That is the real difference between the left and the right. The right-wing rationalizes injustice in the world and tries to normalize it. The left screams hell no and beats it down.

We don't cower. We don't run. We don't surrender. History is on our side. We are fearless.

No.3508004

>>3507991 only they're not just attacking fascist.

No.3508005

>>3508004
Don't attend fascist rallies and other pro-fascist gatherings and Antifa won't bother you.

No.3508009

antifa are hate group, and a hypocritical one at that. I've made a long winded post in the past as to why, but these threads are so obnoxiously frequent I usually ignore them and no one would care what I posted anyways and I don't blame them.

Regardless of their intentions or mission statement the more support they get, the more restrictive laws are going to become for the sake of 'safety' and they are ironically growing support for the right/nationalism/ethnostate etc because of their insistent poking, prodding, and taunting of anything remotely conservative and traditional.

No.3508010

>>3508002

Remember the Bernie campaign worker who tried to assassinate the leaders of the GOP at a baseball game?

I don't recall "the Bundy crew" trying stuff like that.

No.3508018

>>3507986

The irony is that its nothing to do with being Mohamed or muslim at all.

Almost all the kings and even the pope, were diddling young kids and teens back then.

No.3508020

>>3508009

>if you oppose fascists it just makes more fascists!!!1!
>nazis aren't the problem you guys, the real problem is people attacking nazis!!11!1!

Stick to your shitty little doodles.

No.3508021

>>3508010

Lol right, are you missing attempts like the murder of Senator Gabrielle Giffords?

How about the Murder or Kennedy and their family? the hardcore rightwing didn't want anything with the "liberal" kennedy family.

Almost all the killed representants in modern times..have been Democrats being killed by right wingers or cult twats.

But sure, keep insisting only the "the left" attacks.

No.3508022

>>3508010

Yes, you're right. The Bundy crew never tried to assassinate a politician because they only cared about themselves. They shoot at cops trying to protect civilians. They threatened civilians. They kept a teenage girl with them as a human shield. They used the powerless as hostages because they are cowards.

The left becomes violent against people in power when there is no other way to challenge those people. The right is only violent against the powerless.

No.3508023

>>3508009

>antifa are hate group

yes, they hate facists. like, are you fucking stupid? for real.

No.3508024

>>3508010
No, Rightwingers prefer to gun down children, slam cars into crowds of protesters, knife black ROTCs for no reason and slaughter random women suspected of not being willing to sleep with them. Y'know, just generally terrorize the general populace,

Going after hard targets with actual power who are genuinely hurting people is more of a leftist thing.

No.3508026

>>3508009
Also fuck everything "conservative" and "traditional". You cunts throw a shitfit every December if Starbucks doesn't make their dumbass cups "festive" enough. I'd wish for all of your kids to turn out to be transgender vegan otherkin, but you'll never have any fucking kids.

No.3508027

>>3508024

>Rightwingers prefer to gun down children

Yes. Because one of the core conservative values is killing the next generation.

No.3508028

>>3508021

>Kennedy...

Do you mean the murder of JFK? I don't blame that on the right wing. That was the banks pure and simple. They found a radical nutjob to do it I'm sure it was much, much more than just one crazy loon with a hate-on for JFK. That was an organized hit, not an assassination.

JFK had just signed Executive Order 11110 and issues billions in silver-backed U.S. dollars without using the federal reserve. With one executive order he had crippled the Federal Reserve. Remember, the Fed isn't actually federal, it's a private bank on private land that prints and "loans" America at interest.

By creating silver-backed dollars Kennedy was taking away a monstrously profitable scam from the 1%. After his assassination all the "Kennedy bucks" were recalled and no one spoke of it again.

JFK's assassination wasn't left or right, it was green.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/case-closed-jfk-killed-after-shutting-down-federal-reserve-lakhi

No.3508029

>>3508027
The core conservative value is "fuck you, got mine". The ones that aren't gunning down kids themselves are standing idle and ignoring the problem as long as it doesn't affect them.

No.3508039

>>3507841

>not posting frogs on twitter carries the death penalty

the american "Justice" system

No.3508041

>>3508039
Killing everyone that posted frogs on twitter would make the world a better place.

No.3508045

>>3508029
Guns aren't the problem, though.

It takes a person to pull a trigger. It takes someone with serious mental issues to pull the trigger while aiming at a person. Neither side wants mentally ill people to have guns.

No.3508046
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1614915

>>3508045

>Guns are not the problem...

It's funny how other nations have the same number of crazy people and the same number of radicals but have almost no mass shootings. It's almost like it is the guns.

No.3508047
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45804

HAHAHAHAHA! Remember that story about the lazy, druggie, millennial that lived in his parents house for 8 years rent free and refused to leave so the parents had to go to the state supreme court to get him evicted from their home?

Yeah, he's a Trump supporter and calls himself a conservative live on CNN.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LnvSnpFBKE

No.3508051
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430635

OH MY GOD WHY DO FURRIES STILL USE FURAFFINITY.NET

IT'S FUCKING 2018 YOU MASSIVE MANCHILDREN

No.3508052

>>3508046
Yes, and a country with no automobiles has no truck of peace attacks. Let's ban trucks.

No.3508060
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222776

>>3508046

>>It's funny how other nations have the same number of crazy people and the same number of radicals but have almost no mass shootings. It's almost like it is the guns.

Like Mexico?

No.3508061

>>3508051
because nearly every other site has a shittier layout and more javascript than porn.
also, network effects, inertia, laziness, conformity. take your pick.

No.3508062
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829814

>>3508047 He says he's conservative. But a large part of being conservatives means taking responsibility for your own life. Still, I think boomers tried to hard to be their kid's friends instead of their parents. I have a job, I pay into utilities, I do chores, but I do live with my parents. I feel like boomers could have done a job better teaching us to be adults because they seemed more concerned with teaching us to be "individuals". But yeah, hopefully his conservatives values will kick in at some point.

Even given all that I may do, I know that I shouldn't be here right now. I should have my own place, on my own property building a family. But I'm saving money, so I can do that. If they kicked me out Tommorrow, I may not like it but it's their right to do it. My conservative values, however, gives me the discipline to keep trying, and provide a will to do better with my life. We want to condemn this guy, but at the same time, it seems to be reoccurring pattern among boomers that their millennial offspring still with live them. Why are so many millennials such inept adults?

This can't all be our fault. While it is true this guy needs to take more responsibility. Common MILENNIALS! We've got to get our shit together!

vc: law

No.3508064

>>3508062
You can be INDIVEEDUAL and also be responsible and have a job. Not mutually exclusive, you know.

No.3508068
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31519

>>3508065 I didn't say this was "their fault". I'm just noticing that a disproportionate amount millennials live with their parents. But saying inherently it's up to us to make our own lives better.

And where did you even get this part about
"god wanting us to hate minorities" from?

vc:soy

No.3508069

>>3508065

>you can't criticize any other people until you are perfect

Every group you mentioned is fair game for criticism. By anyone. For any reason.

No.3508082

>>3506736
who gives a fuck what a guy who has his own server hosting images of several furry artists and fans says. he already has his way with their content like a slavic sex trade dealer, fuck his opinion

No.3508084

>>3508068

>I didn't say this was "their fault".

you are though

No.3508088

>>3508062

>Why are so many millennials such inept adults?

Because half the markers of adulthood are culturally outdated stereotypes now ("not watching cartoons or playing videogames") and the other half are economically not viable or indeed not physically possible. You've got severe underemployment, even people in jobs are doing deliveroo slavery, but worse, you're not going to get your own flat or house because there physically aren't enough flats and houses out there especially if you want one anywhere near a job.
but of course, if 1000 millennials physically cannot move out into 25 single room flats (they are very small flats) even after costs are waived, that's because 975 of them didn't work hard enough.

No.3508099
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40818

>>3508084 If that's all you took back from it, it speaks poorly of your character.

Like the two pillars of the tree life, Right-leaning policies serve an integral and necessary
purpose in a functioning society equally so, do Left-leaning policies. Essentially, one may not
always like the other or what it has to say but would be entirely lost with it.
It's the timeless paradigm of Nature Vs Nurture. The point is, we're all in a whole lot of trouble. 

This is a break down of what has happened/ is happening.

The Silent Generation are the ones who through hard work and discipline brought us all through the great depression. 
They raised *their* kids, the Boomers with similar values. They would come down on their kids, they raised them pretty rough.
But this roughness while met with rebellion made them strong enough people to get careers & start families. From those families,
we have the "Gen Xers and Millennial Generation.
Because the silent geners came down SOOO hard on the Boomers... they decided enough was enough. 
They made a clear decision that they wanted their kids to know that we're loved, taken care of and provided for.
They wanted their kids to know they were special & important. While there isn't inherently anything wrong with this, it has, as we all can see ...
inevitably to led a disproportionate number of us living with our parents well into adulthood.
This isn't anyone's "fault", it is merely the natural progression of our society. It is based entirely upon social & economic factors.
My **"point"** is if we're going to get ourselves out of the trouble we're all in it is up to *OUR* generation to fix ourselves.
I've taken a right-leaning stance, as I simply do not believe the solution is to tear down everything those generations worked so hard for
so that we could all have better lives today.
No.3508100

>>3508099
that's a whole lot of words no one's reading

No.3508103

>>3508100
Virtue laziness.

No.3508108
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50410
No.3508113

>>3508108
A thousand words, or more of the same?

No.3508114
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46574

>>3508108 [+] hot

>>3508100 okay I see you need me to reduce the word count. That's understandable I guess.

>Right & Left are necessary to each other. Opposing symbiotic forces needed to hold together a free and just society.
>Boomer's parents brought us out of the great depression. Their hard times led to a tendency to be stricter with their kids who are the Baby Boomers.
>This rigid structural upbringing was difficult but led Boomers to be productive people who had families.
>From these families, we get Millenials who they tried not to come down so hard as their parents did with them.
>The lack of discipline has resulted in them living with their parents in disproportionately high numbers.
>Our parents and Grandparents busted their asses to give of us good lives.
>Suggesting we tear it all down is a bitch move.
>We're not acting our ages & that is an immature childish solution.
>We need to get our shit together as it is clearly not together & this is causing some serious problems.

>>3508064 This is true & I think we should talk more about it. :3

No.3508132
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216367

>>3508060

Mexico doesn't ban guns. They have Article 10 of the Mexican Constitution which is like the 2nd amendment.

You need to find a better source for your propaganda.

No.3508158

>>3508099
Is this what is meant by "woke"?

No.3508165

>>3508158 is it?

No.3508173

>>3508158
I'd say yes. Even if everyone's a memer, that post has pretty much no lies in it.

No.3508187

>>3508060

Mexico is a narc campground thanks to various problems.

Starting with:

a) Corruption of authorities, the narc is defacto leaders in some states. Capable of swinging the justice AND the executive branches.
b) Inefficiency and Prisons: tied to bureaucracy and hopeless long cycles and shitty laws. Like the USA, most of the prisons are filled with low level thugs and drug traders. While the big capos, leaders and hardcore thiefs are free thanks to playing the game with lawyers and using every single trick in the sleeve/loopholes they could. Loopholes that were inserted by the corrupt politicians to make themselves safe.
c) Being next to the USA, almost all the narc trade goes this way for easiness and vast spaces to sneak the drugs.
d) The Drug wars being a huge source of money for both interests parties (Including Mexican government, police, USA's DEA, Military and police involved in drug fighting )
d) The US government and other groups actively inserting themselves into the fray AGAINST the combat of drugs, by selling weapons officially and inofficially to narcs. No difference from the good ol' days of Iran Contra.
e) The US loves instability so they can move their pieces and stablish dominance and secure resources. Having Mexico weak serves them as foreign nations regain control of the MEX oil reserves, specially the very lucrative Gulf of Mexico where they are finding new oil deposits every 6 months or so. With a ton being ready to be tapped in the US side and siphoning from the Mex side by using sideways drilling.
f) third party individuals who wants to get lucrative with the fight. See Israel, Germany, Russia and China selling weapons via smugglers. As their branded weapons get somehow in the hands of MEX narcs.

No.3508188

>>3508068

Considering the housing prices and the stagnation of salaries.. And the huge hike on medicine, medical care, food, etc.. are you really surprised?

No.3508327

>>3508224
How about fuck you I won't do what you tell me?

No.3508346

>>3508224
Did you have to look up most of those words? You're such a pathetic cockhead.

No.3508420

>>3508132

>>Comparing mexico art 10 to US 2 amend
>>As a result of the changes to Article 10 of the Mexican Constitution and the enactment of the Federal Law of Firearms and Explosives, openly carrying a firearm or carrying a concealed weapon in public is virtually forbidden to private citizens

Unless you never, ever leave your house, you have no personal defense in mexico.

But thanks for playing.

No.3508430

>>3508420

Except no, open carry is forbidden, close carry is heavily regulated. Its not forbidden. the limits are about guns. So anything military like cannot be used (Ie, assault rifles, auto rifles, military high magazine pistols, etc..)

No.3508441
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115602

>>3508430

Unless you're a cartel.

No.3508520

>>3508441

Thats fake. Mexico does not allow those types of weapons.

>>3508430
You are just making stuff up now.

No.3508521

>>3508520

Thats fake. Mexico does not allow those types of weapons.

And you think some of the hardest criminals in existence (cartel soldados) gives a flying fuck what the state allows? I think something went missing in translation here.

No.3508524
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186277

>>3508441

No.3508526

I wonder do most of these kids who support communism know what it is actually like? My mom came from a country that was ruined by communism. I think if the so called kids who support communism went to North Korea,China,Vietnam or any communist country,they would change their tune and would stop supporting communism.

No.3508527

>>3508430

>military high magazine pistols

i dont even

No.3508530

>>3508526
Some don't.
But some do.
Not all are "kids".
The reason why communism is on the rise is not because of peoples lack of knowledge, but the opposite.
People from all around the world are talking, comparing notes, and coming to a realization that the game was rigged against them from the very start SO MUCH... they see nothing wrong in letting some die to survive another day themselves.

You fucked over your own kids future. What did you think they were going to do? Lay down and die?

No.3508539

>>3508526

No. They think those were all "failed" communist countries. They'll agree they sucked but their current, updated, white people communism will totes work now.

These idiot kids that follow Bernie think that "Everyone gets a TV" means they'll get a 50" flat screen TV, or if "everyone gets a job", they'll get their dream job making video games or something.

Because that's communism!

No.3508541

I think that one day the retribution for these childish attempts to overthrow our Constitutional Republic will be quite cruel. The French stormed the Bastille with less provocation and the Guillotine was quite busy for the longest time.

No.3508542

>>3508526

>I think if the so called kids who support communism went to North Korea,China,Vietnam or any communist country,they would change their tune and would stop supporting communism.

Didn't work in the Soviet Union era either. The indoctrination is too strong; it's like trying to show an evangelical Christian evidence of evolution. The denial of reality just gets stronger.

My grandparents tell stories about how they would take bus tours to the Soviet Union while it was still allowed and wear two pairs of jeans on the way there, and come back in completely different pants because they'd sell both for profit and come back in some soviet equivalent of slack pants.

Usually in tourist destinations, people try to sell you crappy watches or t-shirts etc. but in the Soviet tours people were begging to buy your watch. The decay and destitution was just in your face, but that didn't phase the "true believers" at all - they just made up excuses and alternate explainations to why everyone's poor and backwards, and nobody would do anything about anything. Usually blaming the US in some way.

No.3508544
>People from all around the world are talking, comparing notes, and coming to a realization that the game was rigged against them from the very start SO MUCH

Of course it's rigged - every game is rigged against the losers. The losers in this case are those people who are trying to play the rules instead of the game, trying to vote themselves money and entitlements (communism is capitalism of the proletariat), and when that doesn't work they pick up rocks and sticks and start to riot.

They find no trouble in "letting" someone die to get what they want.

No.3508545
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148983

>>3508541
Yes, the Jacobins, like all the leftists that followed, were the true promoters of the General Will. And of course, anyone with even a slightly different idea was obviously an ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE. They alone could tell.

Too bad Robespierre didn't see it coming when they came for him.

No.3508550

>>3508539 "These idiot kids that follow Bernie think that "Everyone gets a TV" means they'll get a 50" flat screen TV, or if "everyone gets a job", they'll get their dream job making video games or something."

FUCKING MORON CALLS OTHERS IDIOTS. Where the fuck did he ever make such a promise? I'll wait...

Answer fuckhead: Never! God, you Trumptards get stupider by the minute sucking on conservative microdick that all that semen is backing up into your brains and coming out of your idiotic mouths.

No.3508556

>>3508542

Wasn't just the Soviet Union, either.
Look up the car called the "Trabant," it the car of choice in the old East Germany for decades.

It's a car designed by a committee, (a communist one,) that they never improved.

No.3508563

>>3508556
It was a fairly advanced car when it came out in 1957, but they simply didn't update it until 1990, and the company went under after the re-unification.

No.3508570

>>3508526
north korea makes no claim or pretension of being a communist country.

>>3508530
The thing is, I do actually believe people will lay down and die.
See, you look at the Soviet union. They had a central focal point for their problems - the CPSU. You look at any dictatorship, again, you have a central focal point in the government. You're unemployed? It's because Franco's a shithead. The government won't give you a passport on time? It's because the CPSU need to go to the guillotine.

But we don't have that. We've spent the last few decades on a policy of believing the government can do little more than hold the ring. You're unemployed? What do you want the government to do about it? Employment is the domain of free individuals making market decisions, and you can't exactly behead all of them. After all, it's not their fault you're not needed, and it's not the government's fault they don't need you, the government abrogated any responsibility for doing more in the economic sphere than holding the ring long ago. The government can't get you a passport on time? Well, actually that's not even the government's fault either, because passports are handled by 47 different external contractors, held together with a mandate overseen by a non-departmental body making recommendations to but not overseen during day-to-day regulations by the minister. Just what the fuck are you supposed to do against that mess? You can't blame the government, you can't blame individual private sector actors. The problem is the system, but actually pushing systematic change is basically impossible unless you go through the legitimate channels - and the legitimate channels are also powerless, because the government has already surrendered the right to intervene for our benefit.

So, the long-short of this is when the dole office tells you that they're not giving you any money to live, and all the employers tell you to fuck off, you're not going to burn something down. You're probably not even going to steal, because you know systemically we take a very dim view of that. Out of ideas and completely neutered, you're going to lie down under a tree and die.

No.3508573
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31321

>>3508570

>>the government abrogated any responsibility for doing more in the economic sphere than holding the ring long ago

That's interesting. It has succeeded in outsourcing blame.

No.3508575

>>3508570

>because the government has already surrendered the right to intervene for our benefit.

But they sure haven't surrendered the right to intervene for our inconvenience, or their own benefit.

>The problem is the system

Ding ding ding, we have a winner.

>but actually pushing systematic change is basically impossible

Then just do the non-systematic and ignore the system and the government. The problem is that people still believe the government must institute all social change. The reason why people in the communist states didn't do this is because they were under a death threat at all times, but if our governments are as impotent as you say, sooner or later people just say "fuck it".

No.3508576

>>3508573

>That's interesting. It has succeeded in outsourcing blame.

Not really. The governments are just maintaining a horde of leftists who blame everything on the free market and confuse people.

No.3508580

>>3508575

>Then just do the non-systematic and ignore the system and the government

Then you're not actually fixing the problem. On the social level you're just salving your conscience and on the personal level you're just gambling that the dice will roll in your favour.

>but if our governments are as impotent as you say

They're only impotent in areas where they might help us. The state hasn't weakened, it just operates differently. The state is as powerful as it ever was, perhaps more powerful, in a range of areas. It isn't withering away, its just decided that property rights are important and full employment is not, that conditionality in welfare is more important than need, that petty theft needs jail sentences while financial crimes should be overlooked as far as is tenable.

No.3508632

>>3508580

>Then you're not actually fixing the problem.

Why not? The unifying principle behind government corruption is that the government is full of people who initially believe it's their duty to save everyone from themselves, to fix what's wrong with the society. They take a positive, active role in what they define "social progress". In order to do so they must secure social, economical, and political power to act, which means they must form a social organism (a class) that protects itself and its interests from the rest of the society to exist. Guess what happens next?

So, you can't have a systematic government that doesn't become a problem. You can only temporarily call together a committee or a group of people to decide on matters, and then they must disband. There cannot be a system of government in place or it will get abused.

>its just decided that property rights are important and full employment is not

But that's just sensible. Property rights are the basis of a free society, while full employment cannot be guaranteed and anyone trying would be fooling themselves or others.

>that conditionality in welfare is more important than need

Unconditional welfare simply means people start existing on welfare for a living, become the demographic which the government uses to buy its power. Don't vote for us, you're not on the dole anymore. WHoops.

>that petty theft needs jail sentences while financial crimes should be overlooked as far as is tenable.

That's the only actual example of corruption you came up with.

No.3508633

>>3508580

>On the social level you're just salving your conscience and on the personal level you're just gambling that the dice will roll in your favour.

So, win-win.

Take the opposite of the last part of your statement, and consider what it means: some people are not taking their chances, but making sure the dice roll in their favor. Then consider that society is never perfect, that all conflicts can never be resolved with a good compromize, that the people don't have one will and one mind. What does that mean for a society where you can load the dice in your own favor by applying your "positive liberty" through taking over the government?

In that society, even if you're the good guys, you're still the bad guys.

No.3508635
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No.3508645

>>3508632
You're interpreting "systematic" as "government" instead of as "systematic"
Because of our overall societal structure, a private grouping of individuals is just as unable to fix our problems as the state is. You're also applying too moral a character to this by calling it corruption. In many ways it's the inverse of corruption. Indeed I daresay were I to lay things out fully you would find yourself entirely in agreement with the set-up. What is jail for petty theft but a robust defence of property rights? What are financial crimes but a lingering element of outdated, anti-freedom, social-democratic legislation?

>Property rights are the basis of a free society

Freedom yes, but for whom? To do what? to quote a nice and uncontroversial figure.

>full employment cannot be guaranteed

Except, you know, the 30 years where it was guaranteed.

>Unconditional welfare simply means people start existing on welfare for a living

Wrong. The UK had essentially unconditional welfare from 1945 until 1996. Yet oddly enough, from 1945-1970 almost nobody used it. During the 1980s, a lot of people used it, but coincidentally it was also government policy to cause mass unemployment at the time to do-down the trade unions.

>>3508633

>Take the opposite of the last part of your statement, and consider what it means: some people are not taking their chances, but making sure the dice roll in their favor.

God forbid.

> Then consider that society is never perfect, that all conflicts can never be resolved with a good compromize, that the people don't have one will and one mind.

Translation: give up.
Nobody ever promised British weather wouldn't be shit if we brought back full employment. Nobody promises perfection.
And rather than tie this in coherently I'm just going to throw it in: Reluctance to use government, as was learned by much of the anti-statists in the 1980s, is not only cowardice and posturing but impotent. If one wishes to abolish slavery, the effective approach isn't to free one's own slaves and leave everyone else to follow your example, it's to take over the state and say "Let your slaves go or go directly to jail without collecting $500.". (Whether you take the American route of machine-gunning yourselves, or the British route of giving slave-owners fat bribes, I leave up to you. Actually maybe you can spend some long evenings mises.org-ing out whether people should be able to sell themselves into slavery, about the balance of property rights and so on...)

Now here's the fun part: I don't even necessarily disagree that the best route individually is to give up and just go along for the ride to hell. The only problem comes if this is framed as though we've made the right decisions. We haven't, at best western civilisation and at worst all of mankind has blundered. I don't mind accepting such an eternal fuck-up, I'm just not going to swallow it with reheated modernism telling me that it was progress, not a blunder, all along.

No.3508646

>>3508635
I don't understand the picture.

No.3508647

>>3508645

>You're interpreting "systematic" as "government" instead of as "systematic"

They are synonymous in the popular parlance. People are well-indoctrinated into thinking that governance of society requires a system based on a government separate and aside from the society at large. People believe that government must be like the fire department, or the police force - a group of professional policymakers "hired" for the task of controlling everything.

>Freedom yes, but for whom?

From arbitrary control. If you can't claim ownership, nothing works.

>Except, you know, the 30 years where it was guaranteed.

When the world was recovering from a huge war and everything needed rebuilding while there was no shortage of energy or space. Nowadays, there are more people than sensible work to do. Trying to have full employment would require you to make up busywork for all the people, which would cost you more than just having them on the dole, and the end result would just be a population boom because the poor tend to put their money into raising larger families.

If you want full employment, try having some negative population growth for a while. Oh, but the people would instantly vote you out of office for preventing the poor from breeding, over some "ethical concerns" and "human rights"...

>>Take the opposite of the last part of your statement, and consider what it means: some people are not taking their chances, but making sure the dice roll in their favor.
>God forbid.

That's essentially the description of "positive liberty". The leftist theory is that positive liberty works because the people are fundamentally the same, so there's a game where everyone can win (after the losers have been eliminated). Unfortunately that just isn't true, because of this pesky thing called cultural evolution (and evolution in general) where if the system remains in place for long enough, some individuals evolve to make use of it and winners/losers emerge. What you can do is keep changing the game often enough, but the best option is to not play the game at all. Give up systematic idealistic approaches to government, and refuse to elect your own dictators to "make the trains run on time."

>Translation: give up.

Nope. In society there is no end goal to be achieved. It's a constant struggle between the interests of different groups and individuals. You can't achieve perfection, you cannot even approach it, because nobody can ultimately define what "perfection" is.

>Nobody promises perfection.

But they promise "good enough" - that things will be more or less tolerable if we just let these people have their way and control us. It never happens. It's just trading one problem for another, forever, and usually for the worse until everyone gets so fed up they have a civil war and a revolution, and then it starts over.

>Reluctance to use government, as was learned by much of the anti-statists in the 1980s, is not only cowardice and posturing but impotent.

There's government and government. Statism isn't using the government, it's giving up your power to the government in the hope that someone else would do something with it. It never works. If you really want something to happen, you do it, don't delegate to people you know you can't trust.

> If one wishes to abolish slavery, the effective approach isn't to free one's own slaves and leave everyone else to follow your example, it's to take over the state and say "Let your slaves go or go directly to jail without collecting $500.".

If one wishes to abolish slavery, the effective approach is to evolve a society where slavery as a mode of production is obsolete. No amount of examples or punishments is going to change things as long as having slaves is insanely profitable, especially through government action, because your ruling class will not give up their slaves that provide them their social and economic power.

>Now here's the fun part: I don't even necessarily disagree that the best route individually is to give up and just go along for the ride to hell.

It's like with bacteria. If the same colony stays in the same place for too long, eventually they evolve freeriders that destroy the colony. If the colony splits down occasionally, it can shed these freeloaders so their effect is corralled to the splinter groups which self-destruct and free up the resources. In larger organisms, this same principle manifests as sexual reproduction: all multi-cellular organisms eventually die of cancer, so they must split up and make new ones before that happens.

Eventually it becomes necessary to agree to disagree, and that shouldn't have to be a violent revolution - but no state system would allow the social equivalent of the bacterial colony splitting because the state/government is itself a social organism - it's the freeloading parasite that wants to survive, and so it masquerades as a helpful necessary entity while it's actually just killing the host.

No.3508650

>>3508646

>I don't understand the picture.

If you explain a joke, it's not funny anymore. Then again, this isn't a joke.
1st panel: every modern state sells itself as being for the people.
2nd panel: every people consists of different individuals, and only some of their interests align with each other or the state's interests.
3rd panel: the state eventually makes all the individuals conform, whether they like it or not.

That's because all states promise to fix what's wrong in society, and they do this by claiming that everyone has a mutual benefit in having the state. Given power, the state becomes self-serving and self-protecting. Given time, the state grows bigger and bigger to maintain its power - eventually taking over the entire economy.

Eventually the people disagree with the state and find that its structure is unnecessary and wasteful for actually running the society, that it's actually impeding the proper function of the society and causing more trouble, but at this point there's nothing they can do about it within the rules of said state because everyone's dependent on the state and are forced to collaborate.

No.3508664

>>3508650
Now do "The Road to Serfdom", I need a laugh too you know.

No.3508665

>>3508647

>Nowadays,

bridge collapses

>there

Woman in care home is eaten alive by parasites

>are

Lives in a literal horse-box because there aren't enough houses

>more

spends 6 hours at the airport because it doesn't have enough runways

>people

High Speed Rail project due in 2015 begins pre-construction phase

>than

Parliament falls down

>sensible

spends half an hour queueing at the shops

>work

queues outside the hospital

>to

cancels police foot patrols in favour of reaction-only policing

>do

school class sizes balloon

No.3508669

>>3508647>>3508645

It's also not "systematic". It's systemic. Completely different words.

No.3508709

>>3508665
What you've listed is a symptom of a society that's grown beyond its means to support itself. The reason why things like basic infrastructure aren't getting fixed is because 80% of your population is trying to subsist on selling imported shit to each other, reviewing video games and complaining about my soggy knee for money. They're eating all the resources that would otherwise be spent on supporting the society, to hire labor to fix bridges or treat people in hospitals.

Even putting these people to proper work by force doesn't solve the fundamental problem because the population is still 2x larger than the last time we had full employment, and that's when we didn't have much automation to speak of either.

There's just too many people.

No.3508712

Another point is that administration tends to view maintenance as an expense rather than an investment, because it doesn't have a directly calculable or immediate profit. They're just kicking the can down the road, avoiding any action and hoping they can last until the next guy takes office and takes the responsibility for it.

>It's systemic. Completely different words.

Yes, and the word intended was systematic : relating to or consisting of a system : methodical in procedure or plan, "a systematic approach"

The point was that people believe there exists some certain system that, when applied, would "solve" society. These kinds of systematic approaches are liable to self-corruption and perversion of their own cause, becuse instituting any system of government creates a social organism that instantly develops a sense of self-preservation and develops a new fundamental goal to maintain itself over performing its proper function.

It's like the thought experiment of the Artificial Intelligence that was tasked to optimize the production of paperclips in a factory, and ends up with the entire humanity dead as the AI delegates all resources to transforming the moon into a paperclip factory.

In the same way, the society can't run along to any "program" without running into absurdities or getting itself gamed, but if it doesn't run along to any program then your administration is running arbitrarily according to its own whim, and you've just voted yourself a dictator/oligarchy. It's a paradox of representative government.

No.3508713

>>3508709

>There's just too many people.

You're always free to kill yourself.

No.3508714
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60533

>>3508709 Someone has an effective solution to that 'too many people' problem.

No.3508715

>>3508664

>Now do "The Road to Serfdom", I need a laugh too you know.

In criticism to the book:
Marxist Paul Sweezy joked that Hayek would have you believe that if there was an over-production of baby carriages, the central planners would then order the population to have more babies instead of simply warehousing the temporary excess of carriages and decreasing production for next year.

The irony is that this is exactly what the Soviet Union did, because in so many areas of industry they just had to keep up the production of pointless items to keep the people working and thus paid in their living, while in other areas there was a lack of production because not enough workers were appointed.

Mises argued that the pricing systems in socialist economies were necessarily deficient because if a public entity owned all the means of production, no rational prices could be obtained for capital goods as they were merely internal transfers of goods and not "objects of exchange", unlike final goods. Therefore, they were unpriced and hence the system would be necessarily irrational, as the central planners would not know how to allocate the available resources efficiently.

No.3508717

>>3508713

>You're always free to kill yourself.

Indeed I am, but that wouldn't actually solve anything. Some welfare queen would simply take the spared resources to pop out a replacement - the population won't actually stop growing until the poor are genuinely too poor to eat.

And there's no democratic government that can do anything about that, because the poor are the voting majority. A despotic government could, but they'll be soon overthrown by the people who find them in violation of "ethics" and "human rights" again.

The only way to make the decision to control the population is if the population itself collectively decides to do so, and that cannot be achieved as long as the population does not see itself as its own government but externalizes and delegates this function to a small special group of people who end up as the political class. This externalization of social power is at the same time the externalization of social responsibility, i.e. people shifting the blame from themselves to the government so they could continue to be shitty people and abuse and exploit each other, and then turn to the state asking "Why aren't you stopping me? It's your fault!"

No.3508718
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>>3508716

>The population won't stop growing.

https://www.prb.org/us-population-growth-decline/

No.3508722
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23794

>>3508718
The average population fertility rate is in decline, but not the individual growth rate. The poor remain above the repacement rate while the middle class and the rich are below. This represents two conflicting breeding strategies. The poor tend to increase in numbers, while the rich pass their riches on to fewer offspring; the poor are increasing in number while the rich are decreasing in number, leading to greater and greater wealth disparity and faster population growth. We're simply at a lucky lull at the moment.

The second effect in general population numbers is the demise of the baby boom generations who have stopped having babies long time ago, and are now dying out in their masses, resulting in more deaths than births. Once we get over that hump, there's going to be an economic void with fewer dependents (old people), so living standards for the poor start to increase and they fill the void by having more children. Population growth resumes.

No.3508723
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33941

>>3508715 The problem is that this isn't how the USA works. It wouldn't be profitable for anyone to make and warehouse unneeded baby carriages.

Instead what the USA does is create the need for completely unnecessary products via advertising and media manipulation. For example, bottled water. First get people to not trust the quality of tap water, then bottle tap water and claim it's better.

No.3508726

>>3508723

> It wouldn't be profitable for anyone to make and warehouse unneeded baby carriages.

Yeah, they'd be put on sale to cut the losses, and any remaining would be tipped in a landfill - but that's not the point. The point was that the central economic planning by the state doesn't know what it's doing, and when the problems surface it tends to solve them in absurd ways precisely for the same lack of information.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_knowledge_problem

>In economics, the local knowledge problem is the observation that the data required for rational economic planning are distributed among individual actors, and thus unavoidably exist outside the knowledge of a central authority.

The problem of people getting duped into buying bottled water is one of the tasks where Hayek pointed out the state IS necessary: in order to ensure the proper operation of the free market, the state should strive to ensure the individual people have correct information:

>Even the most essential prerequisite of its proper functioning, the prevention of fraud and deception (including exploitation of ignorance), provides a great and by no means fully accomplished object of legislative activity.

-F. Hayek, The Road to Serfdom

Pure Laizzes-Faire is just another one of those systems that people advocate, thinking that the total absence of government somehow fixes government.

No.3508728

>>3508723
Besides, the central planning system also fails to provide the correct information.

In a thought experiment, you can take the example of shoes. The people want cheap shoes of high quality, meanwhile the cobblers want to sell expensive shoes of low quality. To strike a compromize between the two conflicting interests, the central planners form a panel to decide what sort of shoes should be produced, and in order to decide what is the most rational choice they ask the experts: the cobblers. Thus a conspiracy against the public is made.

So if you want to blame someone for bottled water being just ordinary tap water, blame the FDA which is regulating the industry anyhow. They're the ones saying it's kosher to not disclose the source of the water and claim it's better.

No.3508729

The reverse version of the conspiracy against the public by the authorities is the paranoid authority problem.

Take for example the CAFE standards, which set up physically impossible fuel economy targets for cars, on the subtext that the car manufacturers are secretly colluding to push less fuel-economic cars and dragging their feet on the R&D.

The end result is that either all gasoline and diesel cars and trucks get banned by 2025, or the government backs off the CAFE, or as is more likely, the government simply looks the other way as the industry cheats every fuel economy test to "meet" the targets, to save face.

Same thing as with the dieselgate and the EU. First the governments increse fuel taxes. People buy diesel cars to save fuel. Then the government increases CO2 taxes. People buy more diesel cars to save on taxes. Then the government realizes the automakers have been cheating the NOx emissions tests all along because no technology exists to adequately (cheaply) deal with it, but, if they expose the issue they'll be shooting themselves in the foot in various ways, so they don't - and it takes years and years until private consumer organizations expose the cheating and demand action. Then all the governments are all like "Volkswagen! You have been very very naughty! (But please please don't look at what my Renault/Fiat/Audi... etc. are doing...)"

No.3508831

>>3508722

The offspring thing about rich people is bull.
The problem as always been corruption and upper wellfare.

First problem: Billionaires constantly fight to get taxed leads, which leads to less money circulated and more stagnation.
Second Problem: Billionaires and investors constantly use the money of OTHER people for investment and refuse to take the fault when they gamble and they fail. They should NOT be bailed for their bullshit. Yet they get constantly bailed out.
Third Problem: Billionaires and super rich companies are still getting "grants" that were never required. (See General Electric and other companies getting negative tax rates instead of taking what is owed).
Fourth Problem: the US capitalist system is a pure and outright cancer designed to make a very tiny amount of the population, get all the wealth and riches for the efforts of millions.

The US as a ridiculous disparity between CEO pay vs Worker Pay.


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