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43379 No.3503605

Do we have any Gavin McInnes fans on /furi/ ?

No.3503609
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No.3503620
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46586

Punks for long used to stand AGAINST censorship. They used to stand for THINKING FOR YOURSELF! They were the offenders not the offended.

I can't understand why Modern Punk rockers are so supportive of PC culture. I like people who speak their mind, People who support the idea of "I may not like what you have to say but will stand for your right to say it" mentality.

I was first introduced to Gavin McInnes on his video about the Rebel flag, but I've been listening to him more on other issues and I just really like'em.

No.3503729

>>3503620
nobody cares bitch

No.3503730
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231652

>>3503729 Never stopped me before.

No.3503731

By all means, join the fascist hipster and his army of closet cases. That would be endlessly amusing for everybody.

No.3503747
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>fascist hipster and his army of closet cases.

You pretty much described you're entire movement right there.

No.3503890
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281370

>>3503620

>I can't understand why Modern Punk rockers are so supportive of PC culture. I like people who speak their mind, People who support the idea of "I may not like what you have to say but will stand for your right to say it" mentality.

Because they're not legitimate punk.

They're posers. Like those "homless" people out west that weather $400 leather jackets, $60 bullet belts, and "distressed" designer clothing, pretending to be "poor and on the streets" while their trust funds bank up interest.

Not to mention leftists have tried adopting "punk" stuff because the 1%'er Democrats need to keep "hip" with the kids.

Anyone remember the Bernie Sanders "punk" stuff?

No.3503895

>>3503747
>>3503890
Nothing is more punk than refusing to jerk off. Incel is the new punk rock.

No.3504024

Gavin McInnes is controlled opposition. Punk is degrading garbage just like every other sort of artistic expression the popular media pushes.

No.3504032

>>3504024
The real "degrading garbage" infesting western culture is Capitalism.

No.3504033

>>3504032 Fuck off Commie! What you need is a good ass kicking.

No.3504036
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401653

>>3503895 "Incel"

You know he's married right & has kids right?

No.3504037

>>3504033
I'm truly intimidated.

No.3504038

>>3504036

You know all his followers are closeted self loathing gays with extreme sexual frustration who named themselves after a song in Aladdin: The Musical right? You would fit right in lol

No.3504040

>>3504037 Yeah you should be. When you hit people and call regular Americans "Nazi's" simple for being patriotic & not hating America, be prepared to get hit back.

>>3504038 Pretty broad generalization.

No.3504043

>>3504032
Capitalism and Communism are two sides of the same coin.

No.3504044
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89780

Funny how all you capitalism hating faggots would kick and scream bloody murder if you was to be kicked out of the capitalistic country you claim to hate. If you all hate it so much, why don't any of you leave?

No.3504045

>>3504044
Please list one Communist state that western imperialism hasn't fucked with.

No.3504046

>>3504045
Please list one communist state that is better than a western imperialist one and then enlighten us by telling us why you haven't moved there to live in your communist Utopia.

No.3504047

>>3504045
Even Marx noted that the capitalist society will outperform socialism in sheer productivity and living standards because capitalism is more efficient. That's why the communists called for internationalism.

No.3504050

>>3504040
Spare me. I'm sure this has never occurred to you, but the reason that people support Communism is because they want a better world for themselves and their children. Marxist policy proves that in a way that capitalism does not.

That said, I genuinely don't want you on my side. I am willing to divulge my "sinister communistic plot" because some people other than you may see the truth. If you of all people came around to my way of thinking, it could only hurt my cause.

No.3504052

>>3504044 Whoa! Grab some wood there. Anonymouse has come out repeatedly against violent groups like Antifa.

Their gripe isn't with Capitalism persay from what I can tell.

No.3504056

>>3504047
In the age of automation, productivity has no real meaning. Marx could not have foreseen the rise of AI, though he would surely have been horrified by its implications.

No.3504057

>>3504050 They support communism because they've been brainwashed.

No.3504059

>>3504057
People support communism because they have accepted reality.

No.3504060

>>3504047

>Even Marx noted...

Did he?

No.3504067

>>3504060
You can be sure that, at best. This refers to some out of context quote. More likely it's just a fabrication by the right though. A shocking number of alleged "facts" by the right are just wholesale fabrications.

No.3504069

>>3504050 it depends where comunism is placed for example tax related things would fall under comunism to be at least fair to the most extent only issue is EGO some cant ignore theirs and it just keeps inflating while in power but a true person in that position goes out and talks with works amongst and even dines with if you can't lower yourself you cant raise yourself to heights that truely work and desrve respect for comunism that is I myself am a Social liberal progressive conservatist centrist individual I believe that if you cant accept or think outside the one box your stuck making everything one policy and that has proven to never work so yes capitalism while bad is also good in that is is progressive in nature as well it helps to progress us advance us give motivation to create etc. ive affected the Economy as a solo entity just in aluminum ive dropped price by 0.005 in only a few months for bringing in nothing but aluminum en masse so proud of it due to its fair impack as a smalltime person but if someone like myself can do that well what else can i change from the shadows
Im a resource replacer i take resource waste and relocate and sell have many many means of making as much as around 4k a day in that feild had i the vehicle armada which as luck would have it housing someone who comes from Fiji is Indian by blood is giving me work and even more due to their family being filthy rich too so yeah i have access now to much more means of getting off the ground now and maybe i can make some real change being i have the plan to get into politics in around 8-10 years havent deceided to just jump into the rat race full tilt due to failure rate in current state of affairs.

No.3504072

>>3504056

This. If you were to go back in time, bring one of the communist leaders with you to the future and show them the wonders of automation, then send them back to their time, they would immediately place ban on development of any kind of automated technology that could (keyword "could", not "would") replace human labor.

No.3504076

>>3504072
That's no problem for communism, because the leadership can simply choose not to use any automation.

In fact, they did deny the use of cybernetics (control theory - the basis of automation) as a science because it was threatening to the cause.

No.3504079
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130225

>>3504072

No they wouldn't. Old time socialists were loving that shit, that's why they first started putting in slave-labor factories for the "workers".

Fun fact about the Soviet Union, up until 1989...

You would get a job from the government, but if you were late or missed work 3 times, that would be grounds for criminal charges.

Another fun fact! You would have that job until it was no longer needed, then you would have no job. Especially if you were older. You'd get your pittance from the welfare division of the Soviet government, but it was enough to just about keep you alive. Nothing more.

Get pissed? Demand more? Government will shoot you.

But what you are saying is the typical far left wing regression that is currently hampering the human race.

I don't see rockets from the government going into space, but I do see them from a private company.

No.3504084
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265894

>>3504052
That's not Anonymous, that's a communist fascist Antifa libtard and they love to cry about capitalism while waving old Soviet Russia flags. They love to wear Guy Fawkes.

>>3504059
Yeah. Communism is so great that it's being abandoned at a massive rate by most nations. Even communist China has a semi capitalistic economy. So much for that "accepting reality" crap.

No.3504087

>>3504079

>but I do see them from a private company.

That's only doing it for billions and billions worth of government contracts.

But that's a different can of worms. All Elon Musk's companies are based on milking the government for cheap loans, subsidies, and contracts. How the scam works is, Musk has loaned his personal money to his companies at a high interest rate, and is pulling the interest payments out for profit. That way he doesn't need to own volatile stock or pay himself bonuses or wage etc. and if the companies fail they go down without him because he's going to end up as the lender instead of the debtor.

No.3504098

>>3504084

Hint hint: china still does not allow any external banking, ie: they wont allow the jews to set a foothold into their finances while they magically wont start a spending spree as the jewropean/merican faggots thought when they bought the merican depts.

So yes they are communist, as they wont betray their race and community while they make a huge profit on the west as they seem to "expoit" the cheap workforce what they willing to put on the plate... but the west EU/USA logic failts as those expoits wont end up ont he silver/golden platter of some 1°faggot in china, but on the betterment of their own country slowly getting EU levels of UPKEEP ABLE welfare for their OWN citizens XD

No.3504201
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12654

>>3503731

Fascist?

Gavin flat-out refused to say the 14 words when Emily Youcis tried to make him say it.

What a delusional little faggot you are.

No.3504206

>>3504201
So he's not as retarded about his disgusting fascist bullshit as you are. Now make like Hitler and splatter your worthless brains across a wall.

No.3504253

>>3504206
Can we splatter socalist's brains on the wall, because like, Hitler was a national socialist?

I mean, we would be doing the world a favor.

No.3504254

>>3504253
No he wasn't Dinesh. Stop lying.

No.3504256
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842501

>>3504253
the only reason "socialist" was kept in the name of the NSDAP. Contemporary image.

No.3504304
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21703

>>3504206

Remember when CIA documents declassified last year showed that Hitler likely survived the war and lived in Columbia until at least 1955?

Pupperidge Farm remembers...

No.3504346

>>3504304

Are these documents publically available? I could use a good read.

No.3504777

>>3504304 I would also be interested to see these documents.

No.3505170

>>3504777 5 sec of google
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/HITLER%2C%20ADOLF_0003.pdf

No.3505292
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110837
No.3505293
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No.3505385
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310856

>>3505293 That dildo isn't shoved up his ass.. it's just held between his butt cheeks. Booo!

No.3505393

>>3505170

Huh. Curious. Adolph "Shrittelmayor" then, was it? He would have been 65 at the time of this report and that photo. I wonder when he did actually die. Probably peacefully in Argentina at some point.

Shoulda known better than to trust Stalin's Russia on his fate. Deceitful from the very start.

No.3505916

This fuck face is on the ADL list of white supremacist assholes every one should know just like having a pedophile in one's living area.

https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounders/from-alt-right-to-alt-lite-naming-the-hate

No.3505925

>>3505385

Whoa, I know the guy in that ass. He's seriously fucking creepy.

No.3505935

>>3505292
>>3505293
That's the asshole of a man with zero deeply rooted sexual hangups. He definitely wouldn't create a creepy cult for self loathing closeted gay men.

No.3505945
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8630

>>3505916 It's okay to not be ashamed of being white. We're seeing guys like Gavin McInnes rise in popularity because the left is gradually becoming more insane & they're eating themselves. I don't agree with everything he has to say, but a lot of it makes a tremendous amount of sense.

When I was on the left... I never felt afraid of conservatives, I didn't have to worry about them beating me up or trying to get me fired or ostracized. I just didn't agree with them on most issues, but the modern left are indoctrinated psychopaths and my self and a growing number of other people are getting sick of it. They are people who Follow Milo around to call him a Nazi over and over. They are physically attacking people, I've even attacked by a wacko leftist. They push this bonkers horse shit narrative & try to intimidate people into following it.

Fuck that shit! People are allowed to think themselves.

No.3505989

>>3505945

>People are allowed to think themselves.
>as long as it's like me
No.3505995

>>3505989 The hell is that is supposed to mean?

No.3506041

>>3505995
He's projecting.

No.3506109

>>3506041
Saying something accurate is not "projecting", despite what your retarded rightwinger buddies tell you. On the right, "thinking for yourself" is just code for "believing whatever the right wants you to believe".

No.3506386
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89204

>>3506109 No it's "Projecting" because the left seems to have a very specific yet ever-changing narrative that if you don't go along with it you're written off.

Either YOU THINK THE WE WAY WE TELL YOU OR WE'LL SABOTAGE YOUR PLATFORM. That's how the left seems to operate currently. I'm not okay with that. Like I said, When I identified as left... I didn't feel like I had to be afraid of conservatives.

It is very much projecting. Social Justice Warriors are becoming more violent and triggered than ever before. It seems logical to me that the reason we don't see more of it being reported on is that the left has bullied the mainstream media into sucking up to their narrative so left-wing violence just doesn't get the same coverage.

No.3506395
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29637

>>3505945

You do realize the people who followed Milo around and attacked him at Berkley were right-wingers... right?

The same guy who organized the nazi tiki march also bragged about getting right-wing people to pose as activists then throw rocks at "Free speech" advocates to start fights and prove how violent the left is.

https://www.vox.com/2017/8/12/16138246/charlottesville-nazi-rally-right-uva

No.3506397
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59491

>>3506395 Vox isn't exactly a reliable news source anyway. It's extremely left bias but upon actually reading the article...

The article didn't say anything about right wingers "Hiring fake protesters" to harras Milo ...

This is what the article said.

Speakers include some of the alt-right personalities who have flirted most openly with white nationalism, including Baked Alaska, an internet provocateur who was once the tour manager for fellow internet provocateur Milo Yiannopoulos, as well as self-identified white nationalists like Richard Spencer.

No.3506421

>>3506386
We shouldn't be sabotaging your platforms. We should be rounding you vermin up like the animals that you are.

No.3506458
>narrative

As if the right doesn't spout their own false narrative constantly

>all Muslims are terrorists
>gay marriage will cause God to send hurricanes and earthquakes to punish us
>Zoe blew 5 guys
>Trump did not collude
>Roy Moore did not rape teen girls
No.3506459
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136373

>>3506397
Whoops, my bad. I pasted the wrong link.
http://observer.com/2017/02/i-helped-create-the-milo-trolling-playbook-you-should-stop-playing-right-into-it/

This is an article by the guy who literally wrote the book on right-wing trolling. Part of how people like Milo work is creating both sides of the debate to manipulate the media.

No.3506464

>>3506386

>the left seems to have a very specific yet ever-changing narrative that if you don't go along with it you're written off.

It doesn't seem to have. That's how the left operates.

1) apply cultural/moral relativity ("my idea is just as right as yours")
2) apply positive liberty ("the freedom of the individual is bossing other individuals around through the state")
3) personally identify with the people ("I am/we are the public voice, I know what the people really need")
4) apply social constructivism ("people are/prefer what you teach them - you just have to raise the right social consciousness")
5) declare yourself as rational by definition, use it for argumentation regardless of point 1. ("socialism is scientific instead of dogmatic or arbitrary")
6) Act in unison even if you disagree. Because of points 1,2,4,5 the popularity of an idea matters more than its logic or reason, and you will be ostracized for contradicting it.

The shifting winds of leftist narrative is a result of the leftists trying to apply the same mode of thinking internally as well as externally. The narrative that happens to be in vogue right now is the result of the internal power struggle of the left as individual power groups fight to maintain their own political and economic interests.

No.3506465

>>3506464
The left's ideas aren't "just as good" as yours, retard. They're better. Your ideas are dribbling idiocy spoonfed to you by depraved monsters.

No.3506469

>>3506465
They sure are better at making logical contradictions and false inferences, while the useful idiots march hand-in-hand on a children's crusade doing the bidding of populist dictators. Even Marx disagreed with what the Marxists were doing with his ideas while he was still alive.

No.3506472

>>3506469
Better than you evil fuckers, rightwinger cunt.

No.3506488

>>3506472
Sticks and stones, my brother. Foul words are merely the extension where the argumentation falls short.

That's why leftists inevitably pick up the sticks and stones. If they can't save you from yourself by speaking, they'll save you by beating.

No.3506505

>>3506488
>>3506496
Rightwinger bullshit, didn't read.

No.3506506

>>3506465
Seriously though. Leftism, particularily Marxism, is the idea that you can divine the future by looking at the past through your own colored lenses, and the divination always shows that your side is winning regardless of what you're trying to do.

It's "historical inevitability", supported by "historical materialism", supported by "dialectical materialism", supported by bugger all nothing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_materialism#Marxist_beliefs_about_history

>Society does not consist of individuals, but expresses the sum of interrelations, the relations within which these individuals stand.

—  Karl Marx, Grundrisse, 1858

Yep - and a forest isn't trees. Leftism is the idea that society is like a game of billiards on an abstract and perfect table with ideal balls. The individual nature of the balls doesn't matter because they're all fundamentally identical - everything is just about how the balls are laid down relative to one another, so when you make the perfect shot it's all going to line up the way you want it.

But if you replace one with a tennis ball, and saw off a bit of one table leg to make it wobbly, it becomes a whole different game. Worse still, each of the balls has its own agency and will to go in different directions, and the person holding the cue stick is one of the balls as well.

No.3506508

>>3506506

>rightwinger trash doxxing people for political reasons on the same page
>actually its the left who are the bad ones!!!!!!1!

You cunts aren't gonna gaslight people any more. Trash like you need to be rounded up for the good of humanity.

No.3506520

>>3506505

> "war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength"
No.3506524

>>3506520
Orwell was a lifelong socialist.

No.3506534

>>3506508
There's no contradiction, only false equivocation by you.

>>3506524

>Orwell was a lifelong socialist.

Hence why he saw the folly of it. That's what eventually happens to all socialists - watching as their high ideals get torn to shreds by other people applying the same ideas to competely undermine and pervert whatever they were trying to do.

Karl Popper was a socialist too, and he slammed them down good. Where Orwell merely complained about everything that goes wrong with socialism, Popper directly exposed that it's based on a fallacy of thought and its philosophies are all phony - pseudoscience.

No.3506536

>>3506534

>lifelong socialist
>saw the folly of socialism

Rightwįngers are too retarded for really basic concepts.

No.3506539

>>3506386

Thats pretty much how Trump is trying to operate the government. He wants yessmen, not officers who serve.

No.3506547

>>3506534

>no fair pointing out how my side fucking terrorizes people and destroys their lives just for opposing fascists! You can't call us evil trash just for that!

DIAF

No.3506556

>>3506536

>"I belong to the Left and must work inside it, much as I hate Russian totalitarianism and its poisonous influence in this country."

-George Orwell

Point 6. Leftists are always leftists even if they disagree with everything the left does, because they still believe that the premises might possibly work if just implemented "in the correct way", and it's just a matter of educating and reasoning to the people.

Ironically, the left learned nothing of 1984 or Animal Farm.

No.3506558

>>3506556

>Orwell calls himself a leftist
>why does the left insist on calling Orwell leftist?!

Rightwinger logic.

No.3506559

>>3506547

>>no fair pointing out how my side fucking terrorizes people and destroys their lives just for opposing fascists! You can't call us evil trash just for that!

That parody would hold if your side didn't define as fascists absolutely everyone who isn't on your side of the rioting mob, and by "opposing fascists" meant heckling people for an excuse to beat them up just because.

No.3506561

>>3506558

>Orwell calls himself a leftist
>why does the left insist on calling Orwell leftist?!

Nobody disputed Orwell being a leftist. You're just making shit up.

No.3506562

>>3506559
No they don't. And cool ignoring the fact that a nazi is doxxing leftists right here on the same page you disingenuous piece of shit.

No.3506563

>>3506561
You just claimed that Orwell "disagrees with everything the left does" right after he called himself a leftist. Stop gaslighting.

No.3506565

>>3506563

>disagrees with everything the left does" right after he called himself a leftist.

That's not a contradiction. He did disagree with everything the left did - that's why he wrote the books!

> "I worked out an anarchistic theory that all government is evil, that the punishment always does more harm than the crime and the people can be trusted to behave decently if you will only let them alone."

-George Orwell

He simply did what every leftist does when faced with the cognitive dissonance of fitting socialist theory with socialist reality: claim that "it's not true socialism" and come up with your personal definition that will surely work.

No.3506566

>>3506565

>orwell isn't a leftist
>i never said that, he was a leftist
>also he disagreed with everything the left did
>that's why he was a lifelong socialist!

Rightwingers have brain troubles.

No.3506568

I'll save the rest of you some trouble. What this rat is doing is coming up with a predetermined conclusion and then forcing the facts to fit into it. That's why his "logic" makes no goddamn sense. It's all lazy sophistry.

No.3506573

>>3506566

>orwell isn't a leftist
>i never said that, he was a leftist

You're suffering from hallucinations.

>also he disagreed with everything the left did
>that's why he was a lifelong socialist!

Again, no contradiction on my part. Orwell had a word for it: "doublethink" - it's the ability of lefties to contradict themselves consciously and while instantly forgetting they did.

Orwell disagreed with socialism, but called himself a socialist/leftist. How? By defining the Soviet union and all other real-world examples of socialism as "not socialism", including the leftist parties of his own country.

I call him a socialist/leftist not because of the particular views he held, but because he acted like a typical socialist/leftist by first identifying all the problems about his own ideology, cleverly dodging them by shifting the goalposts and changing all the arguments, and yet still calling himself the same thing as if nothing had changed. That's pure socialism in action - that's how socialism can shift from calling for unity of the workers and social justice to sending all the workers to forced labor camps without skipping a beat or blinking and eye.

He pointed the crucial flaws of thinking in others, yet failed to notice them in himself and never abandoned leftism, and that's the irony of Orwell. Unfortunately, it's not irony but tragedy for millions of other people who call themselves leftists, liberals, socialists etc.

No.3506575

>>3506568

>That's why his "logic" makes no goddamn sense.

The reason why my logic makes no damn sense to YOU is because you too are engaging in doublethink, making up false quotes about things I never said, and then pretending that was my argument - while simultaneously ignoring what you're doing.

That, or you're simply lying your ass off in full comprehension of the fact.

For example:

>orwell isn't a leftist

Quote the exact line where I said or even suggested that. You can't, because there isn't one.

No.3506577

>>3506568

>then forcing the facts to fit into it

That habit is more properly called "dialectic" - a method employed extensively by the leftists, especially by Marx and Lenin and their followers. Instead of making contradicting arguments and finding out which is the strongest in a rational debate, it's a method of molding your opponent's argument through semantics to agree with yours. In theory it's a method of two rational and honest parties combining their ideas to find the truth in between, but when one of the parties isn't sincere it devolves into deception.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectical_logic

>Dialectical logic is the system of laws of thought, developed within the Hegelian and Marxist traditions, which seeks to supplement or replace the laws of formal logic.
>Evald Ilyenkov held that logic was not a formal science but a reflection of scientific praxis, and that the rules of logic are not independent of the content. He followed Hegel in insisting that formal logic had been sublated

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aufheben

>Aufheben or Aufhebung[1] is a German word with several seemingly contradictory meanings, including "to lift up", "to abolish", "cancel" or "suspend", or "to sublate".[2] The term has also been defined as "abolish", "preserve", and "transcend". In philosophy, aufheben is used by Hegel to explain what happens when a thesis and antithesis interact, and in this sense is translated mainly as "sublate".
>Sublation can be seen at work at the most basic level of Hegel's system of logic. The two concepts Being and Nothing are each both preserved and changed through sublation in the concept Becoming. Similarly, determinateness, or quality, and magnitude, or quantity, are each both preserved and sublated in the concept measure.
>Hegel approached the history of philosophy in the same way, arguing that important philosophical ideas of the past are not rejected but rather preserved and changed as philosophy develops.

Etc. etc. it all reduces down to Hegelian sophistry and confusion about the use of language, where you can ultimately argue anything with anything and change your meaning and definitions seamlessly along the way. This is the basis of leftist thought - you're never wrong - even when you're shown to be wrong it's actually your opponent who mistook your arguments because you just changed both the argument and the conclusions, and then when they agree with that you can take it all back and do exactly what you originally intended because the whole concept has been "sublated" to mean what you wanted it to mean in the first place.

It's impossible to argue with a leftist, because even in admitting defeat they assume victory and continue to do whatever the hell they want. It's exactly like trying to reason with an ardent Christian - every sort of dodge and intellectual dishonesty comes out eventually, and even where they agree to disagree and hold judgement for a matter that is undecided, nothing practical comes out of it because they simply ignore you.

No.3506584

>>3506573
>>3506575
>>3506577
Nothing that you have ever posted is worth reading.

No.3506594

>>3506584
Again:

>"war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength"
No.3506601
File: sonic.png - (189.42 KB, 821x973) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
193969

>>3506594
Orwell was a lifelong socialist.

No.3506603

>>3506601

this makes his stances even more poignant, as he became disillusioned with the type of socialism put forward by his peers. His books were supposed to serve as a warning to them, perhaps first and foremost. Particularly Animal Farm, but with 1984 he stepped up his game to the more broader subject of totalitarianism. Doublespeak and doublethink as concepts aren't limited to socialist critique.

No.3506619
File: wangfire.png - (336.42 KB, 720x480) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
344499

>>3506594

>almost every war by modern standards are actually started by the rightwing groups seeking the resources of other countries.
>Calls themselves fiscal conservatives, tax cutting to hell, war to hell and increase the deficit.
>call themselves the party of social values, have a turd who has cheated his wives with almost every single women he touched, including almost indirectly saying he'd fuck his own daughter. Approves and support of pedos like Moore or that Supremacist senator in another state.
>BUT ITS ALL THE FAULT OF THE LIBERALS AND THE DEMS!
No.3506624

>>3506584
Argument ad la-la-I-cant-hear-ium.

No.3506625

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQFNuC1aTxU

shills Faking an attack... So the left never does that?

No.3506640

>>3506619

>>almost every war by modern standards are actually started by the rightwing groups seeking the resources of other countries.

Under your not-true-socialism view of reality, socialists or other left-minded political groups don't start wars, because when they do it automatically makes them right wing. You define all wars to be caused by the political right, which makes you always "correct". The rest of your post is just irrelevant whattabouttism.

Protip: the political right, all those who are against tyranny and are pro-liberty, are the original left wing. Early in the history of the left movement, the socialists simply overtook and ousted everyone else who didn't agree with their collectivist authoritarian ideas, by shrieking "Fascist pig!" to every opposing argument just like you are doing. Then they kept doing that to each other as well, pushing out all dissenting and critical thought turning the left into a subversive pseudo-religious cult.

In that way, they gradually disillusioned, alienated, and pushed the libertarians and all the other reasonable parts of leftism into the arms of the actual fascists and other machiavellian types who agreed to and applied only select few bits of it. By pretending that their former allies were now the enemy, the left actually created the mish-mash of capitalism, religion, and Ayn-Rand-reading, Trump-voting social darwinism they call the political right.

But that's just as planned. Leftism truly lives and breathes conflict - if there isn't a plausible enemy to wage a class war against, the left has no power. If everything is well in the society, leftism isn't needed, so everything must be wrong, always.

No.3506642

>>3506603
Consequentially, Orwell and his books got banned from all the socialist countries, and the left in the US tried to ban 1984 on the excuse of it being anti-semitic, because of some character comments in the story.

The left really doesn't take (self) criticism well.

No.3506650

>>3506640
Not an argument.

No.3506692

>>3506650
Argument: a coherent series of reasons, statements, or facts intended to support or establish a point of view. A reason given for or against a matter under discussion

Argument:

>You define all wars to be caused by the political right, which makes you always "correct".

Meaning: you are engaging in fallacious argumentation which renders your point invalid. It's the same no-true-scotsman fallacy that attempts to excuse leftism from what leftists do, to argue that those people who start wars were all actually right wing.

Leftism is at the core the application of positive liberty - it argues that the proper freedom of individuals is to form states to empower themselves to control their own condition - or in other words, to boss each other around. When the individuals take up their positive liberty and tell each other what they have to do, eventually some individuals end up with more political power than others and they form tyrannies and start wars against competing groups. It's all in the Animal Farm and 1984 if you care to read.

Positive liberty is used to argue that the people have the right to go around "fighting for peace", killing the "enemies of the people", etc. while actually just shifting borders, installing puppet rulers and stealing resources for their own benefit. While not all warlords and dictators necessarily subscribe to any particular ideology other than their own, leftism has been a far more popular cause for war in the modern world.

No.3506699

>>3506692
Rightwinger post, didn't read :-)

No.3506700

>>3506640

>the political right, all those who are against tyranny and are pro-liberty

Hu except no? The right as always been for rule-sets based on conservativism. Hence why they love to shove less freedom regarding people and more power towards oligarchs who are the new feudal lords.

>socialists or other left-minded political groups don't start wars, because when they do it automatically makes them right wing.

Nice distortion you clown. I never said the left didnt made wars. I said that the right on the USA as always been the ones inventing wars.. see Iraq.

>they gradually disillusioned, alienated, and pushed the libertarians and all the other reasonable parts of leftism into the arms of the actual fascists

Please take your meds. You're going batshit insane and into tinfoil levels.
Delusion is claiming your leaders are not corrupted, when they are corrupted to the core as the investigations show.
Delusions are claiming your party is the party of the moral rights, while patting down pedophiles, sexual harassers, multi divorce and cheating husbands and who support everything but what their religion actually told them to (like supporting the poor, etc..)

No.3506710

>>3506700
Get ready for minimum of three walls of text filled with smugness, baseless accusations, historical revisionism and decades-old rightwinger talking points.

No.3506716
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66499

>>3506700

>Hence why they love to shove less freedom regarding people and more power towards oligarchs who are the new feudal lords.

Help! Government needs to ban free speech because it might hurt my feelings!

No.3506729
File: Combat_Deaths.jpg - (56.29 KB, 500x500) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
57641

>>3506700

>>"...I said that the right on the USA as always been the ones inventing wars.. see Iraq."

Nope. Not even close. Leftists have always been the bloodthirsty, violent warmongers.

Let's see, over the past 100 years:

World War I - Woodrow Wilson and his Progressive friends - 53,000 dead

World War II - FDR and his New Deal Leftists - 291,000 dead

Korea - Harry S Truman and his communist-filled administration - 34,000 dead

Vietnam - Kennedy and Johnson's wonderful '60s war - 47,000 dead

And on the Right we have:

Gulf War - by George "Read My Lips" Bush Sr. - 149 dead

Iraq and Afghanistan - Lets just lump them both on Bush Jr. - 5,669 dead to date

No.3506730

>>3506700

>Hu except no? The right as always been for rule-sets based on conservativism.

Conservatism does not equal right wing as the left understands it. Again, the left just lumps everyone who disagree with them as "right wing", and there is no single set of policies regarded as conservative because the meaning of conservatism depends on what is considered traditional in a given place and time.

In the US, modern conservatism properly, but not always in practice, refects the idea of reversing leftist identity politics and perversion of the constitution and returning society back to the principles of liberty, so it is actually rather left wing - if only the left hadn't dropped the whole "Liberté, égalité, fraternité" ideal, which in its original meaning says:

>Liberty consists of being able to do anything that does not harm others: thus, the exercise of the natural rights of every man or woman has no bounds other than those that guarantee other members of society the enjoyment of these same rights.

So, negative liberty instead of positive.

>[The law] "must be the same for all, whether it protects or punishes. All citizens, being equal in its eyes, shall be equally eligible to all high offices, public positions and employments, according to their ability, and without other distinction than that of their virtues and talents."

So, no affirmative action or other "positive discrimination" or favoritism that puts one man above the other; no stealing from the rich and giving to the poor. Meritocracy.

They only kept the fraternity, in the form of blind adherence to the leftist cause to avoid being thrown out of their own kangaroo court.

No.3506732

>>3506729
Let's not forget Obama and Syria.

No.3506733

>>3506716
The fundamental contradiction of the left is that they don't understand or want to admit that people can make their own choices - including the bad choices. Liberals claim they are democratic and open to public debate, but truly they are appalled to hear what the public really has to say and will promptly ignore it.

If the people are racist, it's their liberty to be so. Of course this creates a conflict in society, because the conflict exists regardless, and it has to be resolved by the people - the resolution cannot be dictated from above by "enlightened" rulers because you can't force someone to be good. You don't even get to define what "good" means exactly because you don't have the authority on the matter on anyone else besides yourself.

But the leftist disagrees, because positive liberty means that you do get to apply your personal definition of "good" to everyone else, and demand that they take you seriously.

No.3506762

>>3506716
Of course, right wingers are so much for freedom.. unless you're a woman and if your skin shade is anything darker than white as a twinkie.
But do keep pretending...

>>3506710
You were spot on.

>>3506729
World Wars do not count. As they are not unilateral and based on choice.

>>3506732
Syria and all the Arab spring was caused indirectly by the rise of ISIS and the removal of Saddam Hussein (meddling by Isr ael and Saudi Arabia helped a lot too). Which was directly the blame of George Bush Jr.

But sure, lets put it on Ob ama for now.

>>3506729
Kenne dy's War?

>forgets it was actually Rich ard Nix on who promised to go ass to mouth first when Kenne dy didnt want to go into a full blown war, one of the reasons he got murdered.
>also only counting death-count of US troops and officials, and not allies AND civilians..
No.3506772

>>3506650 It kind of is though.

No.3506773

>>3506762

>>"World Wars do not count. As they are not unilateral and based on choice."

All wars are based on choice. When Germany invaded France and marched into Paris in the Franco-Prussian War, no one in the U.S. cared or got involved. In WW I, there was a serious move for the U.S. to get into the war on Germany's side. In WW II, it was iffy that the U.S. was going to get into the war at all.

The U.S. Left (under Stalin's orders) picketed the White House for the U.S. NOT to get into WW II in 1940 and '41, until the USSR was invaded, then they suddenly did a 180 and the next day the same people were picketing for the U.S. to enter the war. The Kennedys thought Hitler was the sure winner and sent money to the isolationist movement.

The French were fighting communists in Vietnam in the 1950's and asked for U.S. help. Eisenhower wisely said fuck off, but not Kennedy.

And "Not Unilateral"? None of these wars were unilateral. The Korean wWar was backed by the entire UN except for the USSR and China. And the Gulf war involved 39 countries - Afghanistan, Argentina, Australia, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belgium, Canada, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Egypt, France, Germany, Greece, Honduras, Hungary, Italy, Kuwait, Morocco, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Niger, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Singapore, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Syria, Turkey, the United Arab Emirates, the United Kingdom and the United States. These allies lost more dead than the entire U.S. total.

>>"Kenne dy's War?
>"forgets it was actually Rich ard Nix on who promised to go ass to mouth first when Kenne dy didnt want to go into a full blown war, one of the reasons he got murdered."

[This last bizarre comment was added to show categorically that you have no fucking idea what you're even saying.]

No.3506775
File: tumblr_p8o4h1Gp6X1uvuzqko1_500.gif - (740.23 KB, 464x304) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
757994

>>3506729
I tried looking up the source for this graphic's information, which appears to list itself as :imgflip" however, the data was not listed at that website, and in fact, it was only an image creation engine.

May I see the source and collection methods of your data?

No.3506778

>>3506775
Info was from Wiki article titled
"United States military casualties of war"
It obviously uses multiple sources, but lists them fairly well if you want to check them.

No.3506780
File: tumblr_p8c08pjzQN1uvuzqko1_500.gif - (1245.04 KB, 445x294) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
1274924

>>3506778
I see!
This specific dataset only lists casualties of congress-approved officially declared wars however.

The "War on Terror" is not actually a declared war, and thus the casualties related to "Peacekeeping" operations, of which since Bush W, there have been many, are not recorded in this data set.

The united states "War on Terror" operation have already surpassed any numbers you have provided. I understand however, 8 of these years were under Obama, and the data does not specify the time frame of these casualties. Your presented data however, attributes a given war to the one in office when the declaration was made, so by that rule, all casualties related to the "War on Terror" can be attributed to a Right wing president.

If your data is modified to fit the specific time that one was in office, I too can modify my data, even discarding the role of the "Left" and "Right" as they changed at the end of the 20th century, and discarding that the second world war was forcefully declared by an overwhelmingly republican house/congress after the attack on Pearl Harbor.

No.3507005

>>3506773
Not all do, World Wars are a "do or die".
Nations have had to pick a side or be splattered by the superpowers trying to gain footholds to beat the others.

The USA was going in, the question was in which side.

>>3506780
This!

No.3507017
File: Combined--Control_of_the_U.S._House_of_Representatives_-_Control_of_the_U.S._Senate.png - (164.74 KB, 1399x706) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
168694

>>3506780

>>"I see!

This specific dataset only lists casualties of congress-approved officially declared wars however."

No, actually. Korea was not a declared war, neither was Vietnam, the Gulf War, Iraq, or Afghanistan.

>>The "War on Terror" is not actually a declared war, and thus the casualties related to "Peacekeeping" operations, of which since Bush W, there have been many, are not recorded in this data set.
>>The united states "War on Terror" operation have already surpassed any numbers you have provided. I understand however, 8 of these years were under Obama, and the data does not specify the time frame of these casualties. Your presented data however, attributes a given war to the one in office when the declaration was made, so by that rule, all casualties related to the "War on Terror" can be attributed to a Right wing president.

I lumped all these (listed, anyway) to G.W. Bush, since that's when it started. I assume "Iraq" and "Afghanistan" cover almost all of the "War on Terror" deaths. If you have any other sources, add them to Bush's total.

>>If your data is modified to fit the specific time that one was in office, I too can modify my data, even discarding the role of the "Left" and "Right" as they changed at the end of the 20th century, and discarding that the second world war was forcefully declared by an overwhelmingly republican house/congress after the attack on Pearl Harbor.

I didn't modify anything. All the figures were for the entire war/conflict started during that administration. And by the way, before, during and after Pearl Harbor, it was Democrats that had a HUGE majority in both the House and Senate, between 60% and 75% of the seats. With one exception (the Spanish American War in 1898) every Declaration of War in the last 200 years was passed by a Democrat controlled Congress.

No.3507964
File: Protesters+Rally+Berkeley+After+UC+Berkeley+XP3KAuCOW5Bl.jpg - (84.54 KB, 600x400) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
86571

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0JOLLg7LA0


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